Recently I put out a video discussing how
Sonic the Hedgehog 3 has intentionally been buried by Sega, possibly out of the fear of
legal troubles from people who helped produce the music for the game’s soundtrack. That video’s focus was mostly on the best
way to still play Sonic 3, but I like to talk about a game’s history, to give context
on why there needs to be a video explaining how to play the game. If you haven’t seen that video, I recommend
checking it out. I’ll link it in the description, and it’ll
probably show up as a link at the end of this video. You don’t have to watch it to understand
what I’m about to talk about, but it might help. A lot of that video’s focus is on the music
of Sonic 3. At some point in Sonic 3’s development,
Sega allegedly announced and then immediately retracted a statement that they were collaborating
with Michael Jackson for the game’s soundtrack. Though Michael Jackson himself is not directly
credited, six people known to produce Michael’s music are credited, as is Michael Jackson’s
coordinator, Mayumi Nina Sakazaki. Simply put, Michael Jackson undeniably worked
on Sonic 3’s soundtrack, and it’s likely there are legal issues stemming from that
soundtrack that are preventing the game’s re-release. With recent information coming to light, and
questions from people who watched that video, I wanted to take a little bit of time to do
a simple video podcast to talk about that in greater detail. This isn’t going to be a super highly produced
thing, just me talking about things, with maybe a bit of video here and there to demonstrate,
so if that sounds boring or whatever, don’t feel bad about closing the tab. I just don’t want a reply like this to take
months to put together, because videos like that are a LOT of effort. So while producing that video, a Sonic Retro
user named drx released the very first Sonic 3 prototype ever discovered. That prototype is notable for reasons I’ll
get to in a second, but the first thing you have to know is that I’d kind of been working
on that Sonic 3 video since, like, May or June of 2019, when the first version of Angel
Island Revisited came out. Basically, I wrote the script and then sat
on it for a few months because I had other things I needed to take care of. When drx released the Sonic 3 prototype, I
was probably around 70-80% complete on my video. I could have fit in a segment to talk about
the prototype and what it means for what we know about Sonic 3’s music, but that would
have delayed the video, and I wanted it out before Thanksgiving of 2019. The holiday season is very important on Youtube,
because advertising revenue goes way, way up, and I needed to get the video out there
before Black Friday started. Ideally, I would have had it ready to go in
October, but things just didn’t work out. This prototype shed some new light on Sonic
3’s development process. A summary is that Sonic Team began work on
Sonic 3 a few months after they finished work on Sonic 2, and they spent almost five months
building a brand new, isometric 3D game for the Sega Genesis using something called the
SVP chip, which was short for Sega Virtua Processor. The SVP chip was going to be Sega’s answer
to Nintendo’s Super FX chip, in that it would’ve allowed 3D games to be made for
the Genesis. The original version of Sonic 3 was going
to be one of the first 3D games for the SVP chip, but Sega ended up delaying production
and Sonic Team had to scrap that version of the game and start over. To this day, that original SVP version of
Sonic 3 has never been shown publicly. Nobody knows what it really looked like, it’s
all just speculation. It was now June and Sega needed Sonic the
Hedgehog 3 to release in February of 1994 because they had a marketing promotion with
McDonalds and they couldn’t miss the deadline. Because it takes time to manufacture game
cartridges, Sonic Team had roughly from June to November to make an entire game. So five months, when most games, even back
then, took twelve months or longer. It was a very short, very grueling development
process, something represented in this prototype that was released. The prototype is dated only a few weeks before
the November deadline, and the game is a mess of incomplete levels and broken features,
nothing at all like what you’d expect from a game that should have been nearing the end
of development. Drx has published a much longer, more in depth
article about all of this that I will be linking in the description. Where this ties in to my video and the status
of Sonic 3’s music is despite the fact this build was apparently made in October, near
the end of the game’s development, it does not yet feature any of the Michael Jackson
music. Instead, it features music that was later
used in Sonic & Knuckles Collection on the PC, suggesting that the music used in that
version of the game was secretly Sonic 3 prototype music all along and nobody actually knew until
now. It’s pretty crazy. This obviously raises many questions about
Michael Jackson’s involvement in Sonic 3. Sega of America’s Roger Hector has said
in the past that Michael was kicked off of Sonic 3 because of the child molestation reports
that came out during the game’s development. Given that this prototype build of Sonic 3
contains an October 1993 date, that puts it AFTER the reports came out against Michael. That suggests, at least to me, that there
was a time where Sega was trying to replace Michael Jackson’s music entirely, and at
some point between October 1993 and November 1993, those songs ended up in the game anyway. As of this recording, we don’t know why
that is. Despite the October date in the prototype,
there’s other information to suggest some of this data could have been from a much earlier
version of the game, so maybe some of it DOES pre-date Michael’s involvement with the
Sonic 3 soundtrack. Again, we don’t know. This prototype provides more questions than
answers when it comes to Sonic 3’s music. That became a major reason why I chose not
to go back and include any mention of the prototype in my video. Instead, I went with what I already had, which
was solid information that pointed towards an answer. We know Michael Jackson’s people made music
for Sonic 3, we know that music made it into the final game, and we know that some people
who worked on that music are upset with Sega. It’s already a long, complex video, so there
was no need to muddy things up with more questions and fewer answers. As for why Sega kept re-releasing new versions
of Sonic 3 with music they might not have had the license for, that’s also kind of
a mystery I don’t necessarily have an answer for. Outside of the fact that music licensing is
weird like that. It was long rumored that the music licensing
for Sonic 1 and 2 was held up for a while, too. The musician behind those games was a man
named Masato Nakamura, and he was part of one of the biggest pop music bands in all
of Japan, called Dreams Come True. Directly following the release of Sonic the
Hedgehog 2, Dreams Come True released an album that would go on to become one of the best
selling Japanese Pop Music albums of all time. So they were a pretty big deal. The rumor was that BECAUSE Nakamura’s band
became so popular, he began charging Sega massive licensing fees for using the music
he composed for Sonic 1 and 2. The only real verification we have of that
is Sonic Spinball. Sonic Spinball was developed by Sega of America,
and early versions of that game contain a version of the Sonic the Hedgehog theme composed
by Masato Nakamura. [Original Sonic Spinball Theme] Sega of Japan told Sega of America that they
weren’t allowed to use that song, so a new Sonic Spinball theme was composed by Howard
Drossin to replace it. [Final Sonic Spinball Theme] Obviously, Sega got to keep re-releasing Sonic
1 and 2 without having to change the music or get into any legal trouble, and that’s
where music licensing can be so complicated. The way I understand it is, when it comes
to music, you license the song itself and the PERFORMANCE of the song separately. So let’s say you want to use Queen’s “We Are
the Champions.” First, you pay to license the song itself,
which is the notes and the lyrics. Then, on top of that, you also license Queen’s
actual performance of the song, meaning Freddie Mercury’s voice, and the band members playing
their instruments. In some cases, each band member is a separate
performance you have to license individually, making their songs very expensive. With Masato Nakamura’s music for Sonic 1 and
2, he would compose the music at his studio, and then send the recordings to Sega, where
Sega’s sound engineering team would translate Nakamura’s music to work on the Sega Genesis. So, for example, Nakamura would produce music
in his studio that sounded like this [“Masa’s Demo Version” of Emerald Hill] And then Sega’s sound engineering team would
produce this as the finished product. [Final Sonic 2 version of Emerald Hill] In short, Nakamura owned the notes because
he created the song, but Sega owned the performance because their sound engineers translated the
music. Theoretically, this allowed Sega to keep publishing
new versions of Sonic 1 and 2 as long as it contained the original FM synthesizer music
from the Sega Genesis. They could not produce any new remixes or
remasters for that music. It had to stay in its original format, because
Sega owned that performance. That eventually changed around the time Sonic
Generations was released. Sega actually brought Masato Nakamura out
on stage for the announcement of Sonic Generations, and it kind of seemed to be a symbol of the
two burying the hatchet, so to speak. Sega may have even bought the rights to Nakamura’s
music at this time, given that after Sonic Generations, Sega seems to be freely using
those songs and themes in more games. But, again, we don’t know enough about Michael
Jackson’s involvement with Sonic 3 to say how this effects that game’s music. It’s possible Sega thought they owned the
performance rights to Sonic 3’s music, but maybe they actually don’t. That would have created a scenario where Sega
was technically using Michael Jackson’s Sonic 3 music illegally for decades. That would definitely create a scenario where
they owe people unpaid money for that game. It may also be a recent thing. Since Michael Jackson’s death, his estate
has kind of gone on the warpath trying to lock down unauthorized uses of Michael’s
work. They’ve been flinging lawsuits at everyone
from HBO to Disney for any number of alleged breaches of contracts or whatever. It’s possible Sega is just trying to keep
their heads down to avoid being the next target. There are lots of more reasons, too. Maybe Michael Jackson contributed to Sonic
3 in secret due to contractual obligations with his publishing label. Michael had cameos in all kinds of things
back in the day that never credited him by name. That’s because he was locked in to a contract
to only make content for certain corporations. If Sega ever actually admitted Michael worked
on the game, that could get them in trouble. Maybe Sega’s been paying licensing to Michael
Jackson all along and since Michael died, the money hasn’t been going to the right
people anymore. That could also be a possibility that would
get them in trouble. Whatever the case is, it really seems to me
like Sega thought they were in the clear, and that has now changed enough that they
are running scared. And you have to remember that this isn’t
the first time something like this has happened. Sonic 3 disappeared off the Wii Virtual Console
for a while, too, before eventually resurfacing after a few years. I think the same thing happened to the Xbox
Live Arcade version of Sonic 3, too. We should all keep in mind that there are
things going on behind the scenes that none of us know about, but from their perspective,
Sega has a good reason to be acting this way. As for the possibility of Sega using the prototype
Sonic 3 music to side step the legal issues involved with Michael Jackson’s music, you
have to realize it’s not that easy there, either. Most game developers back then never thought
they’d ever need to archive their source code for later, so modifying Sonic 3 to change
out the music is a lot more difficult than simply copying over some files. You’d have to essentially hack the game,
which is easier said than done, especially when it comes to a big corporation like Sega. First, they’d have to find someone who understands
the raw machine code inside of a Sega Genesis. This person would be required to understand
how to interpret the music data in both versions of the game so it could be transferred without
breaking any of the existing code. It’s a very delicate, difficult process. Not only does the person have to be highly
skilled at hacking Sega Genesis games, but it has to be someone that Sega trusts to do
the job. They can’t just hire some random person
off the street, because they might do a bad job, or worse, they might insert malicious
code into the game. They’d have to find a person that is guaranteed
to do the job correctly. Second, who composed the prototype music? For reasons possibly related to Michael Jackson’s
involvement, Sega has rarely gone in to detail for who composed what songs in Sonic 3. We know that people like Jun Senoue, and Howard
Drossin, and Brad Buxer all contributed music to Sonic 3, but Sega has never told anyone
which specific songs they are responsible for. Now, you have to remember, Sonic 3 was originally
developed 25 years ago, and it was developed in a hurry. They might not have even kept records of this
stuff, and even if they did, where are those records now? How organized are they? Does anyone working at Sega today know where
to find out who composed what music? Because Sega can’t just use the prototype
music like its theirs, there is a process they must go through to find the original
composers, and at the very least, get their blessing. You might think that’s crazy, but that’s
how this works. Konami went through the same trouble with
their Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles arcade games. They re-released them on the Gamecube, but
whoever originally composed the music wouldn’t let them use his work, so they had to replace
the soundtracks. And when Ubisoft did an HD remake of Turtles
in Time for the Xbox 360, they were also blocked from using the original music. Even Sega was blocked from some of Sonic CD’s
Japanese music because they weren’t allowed to use some of the vocal performances for
the 2011 Retro Engine remake. Sega will absolutely need to find and contact
the original people that made the prototype music and at least NOTIFY them, or something! Doing both of those two steps, finding a hacker
to hack the music and finding who even created the music to begin with, those things cost
time, and effort, and money that Sega obviously doesn’t want to spend for one reason or
another. You might think that sucks, but that’s also
business. Business sucks. You have to see it from their perspective. I mentioned that Konami replaced the soundtracks
to their Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles games, and people hated it. People hated it when new versions of Super
Meat Boy replaced the soundtrack a few years ago. Sega got to experience this first hand when
they remastered Crazy Taxi and had to replace all of the music. You’ll notice they never went on to remaster
Crazy Taxi 2 or 3, right? When you’re running a business, you look
at trends like this. If Sega went through all the effort and money
of releasing a version of Sonic 3 with different music, it would be a noose around that game’s
neck and nobody would ever shut up about it. So in Sega’s eyes, it’s not worth it. It sucks, but business sucks. Game development is not a magical candy land
where good ideas are automatically granted passage. I’m not saying that makes any of this okay,
just that this what happens. These companies are made by people confident
in their methods for making money, and sometimes things like this slip through the cracks. They obviously know there’s a demand for
Sonic 3, as there was a whole huge petition with tens of thousands of signatures. But it’s just not in the cards, otherwise
they would have done it by now. Anyway, that’s basically all I wanted to
say. I knew about the prototype, and I know it’s
a hot-button talking point these days, but it did not significantly change what I wanted
to say in my video. My videos are more about the history of why
the game is unplayable, not a summary of the game’s entire development. If that was the case, that Sonic 3 video would
easily be an hour long. It kind of is, if you count this podcast as
part of it. And, yeah, I don’t think there’s much
Sega can do to re-release Sonic 3. I mean, there are THINGS they can DO, but
from a business perspective it probably doesn’t seem like it’s worth the effort to release
a gutted version of one of Sonic’s greatest games. There is no winning scenario here. Sega got themselves in to trouble, and dealing
with that trouble could be very damaging to the company. Because if you didn’t know, Sega isn’t
what they once were. They have good years and bad years, but sometimes
it really feels like Sega has more bad years than the good ones, you know? They might not have a lot of money on hand
to deal with the legal ramifications of this stuff. Like I said, nobody wins. And, of course, nobody really knows what’s
going on, anyway. That’s the most important takeaway in all
of this. Sega is clearly hiding something and we only
really have snippets of what it COULD be. But it could be something else entirely. We just don’t know, and from where Sega
is sitting, that’s the point. We aren’t SUPPOSED to know. They would rather pretend that there’s no
problem at all, even when that’s obviously not true. But again, that’s business. Anyway, I’ve never been good at ending podcasts,
but if you somehow heard this and didn’t see the main video it’s referencing, now
would be a good time to go watch that. If you want more long winded replies to things,
you can always hit up my tumblr ask blog, there’s a link in the description. I’m also on twitter, and I tweet a lot of
garbage. You can also donate on patreon to get early
access to more podcasts from me, though they do eventually come to Youtube. All of this is linked in the description. Bye~

The Definitive Way to Play Sonic 3 – Part 2 (Supplemental Podcast)
Tagged on:                                                 

100 thoughts on “The Definitive Way to Play Sonic 3 – Part 2 (Supplemental Podcast)

  • December 1, 2019 at 9:24 pm
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    I hate it how some butt hurt idiots can prevent remakes of 2 decades old classics in dire need of an update. Like back off and mind your damned business you greedy f*cks. Even so SEGA should just update the prototype tracks and use those. Or make new ones. Pretty sure TeeLopes is up for it.

    Reply
  • December 1, 2019 at 9:28 pm
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    Thank you for tackling the issues with releasing a version of the game with the prototype music. It's always a lot more complicated than you think. Besides, SEGA probably saw that people hated the PC tracks, and probably won't release a version with them ever again, even though we now know they were the original versions of the tracks.

    Reply
  • December 1, 2019 at 9:34 pm
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    I want to compliment you on these two Sonic 3 videos. Even though I pretty much knew all this stuff already, you present it in an interesting way.
    Anyway this whole situation just saddens me. We're nearing ten years since Sonic 3 has been re released last, it just makes me question, will this ever get resolved? Or will an amazing game with a huge legacy for Sonic just continue to be swept under the rug by SEGA forever.

    Reply
  • December 1, 2019 at 9:37 pm
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    if Taxman and Stealth made a Sonic 3 mobile port
    there is a definite chance that it'll feature remastered versions of the prototype music

    Reply
  • December 1, 2019 at 9:37 pm
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    12:59 Alright, you're going a bit off the rails with speculation. Yes, porting the music takes more skill than the average code monkey, but keep in mind that Sega already has M2 under their belt AND they've welcomed members of the community to help them before. I think your second explanation makes a lot more sense. Also, there's still the possibility that they'd get brought to court by undead MJ's hounds even if all the music is replaced just because they don't know any better or because there's some other legal knot.

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  • December 1, 2019 at 9:57 pm
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    SEGA still can't use the Sonic 1 and 2 music in some cases either – in LEGO Dimensions, for the Sonic Level Pack they had to compose completely original "sound-alike" versions of the music.

    Reply
  • December 1, 2019 at 10:10 pm
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    Hacking the game isn't an issue here, since it's pretty easy with the software and knowledge we have now. Even if it is, Christian Whitehead has worked worked with ROMs before, as far as I'm aware, so they wouldn't have search for long.

    They're just scared of the backlash. Tracks like Ice Cap are just so damn iconic and good, you lose half the fun without them. The best solution to this would be hiring the best Sonic composers to make something even better and include mod support, but it would still be really risky. They could just explain the whole situation somewhere in the credits or something to make the whole thing less severe, but, again, it's really, REALLY risky.

    Reply
  • December 1, 2019 at 10:23 pm
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    Wait a minute, are you telling me, that there's absolutely no way of them just replacing the original OST with the "PC/Prototype" music? That would be the most logic solution to all this madness, I mean, it would be a pain in the ass to not have the classic soundtrack, but it would be worth it.

    Reply
  • December 1, 2019 at 10:26 pm
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    Director: Lead Sound Designer, we have a problem, the current music driver keeps failing and the songs are not playing at all, what are we gonna do?
    Lead Sound Designer: Ahhhh don't worry, I'll roll back a few snapshots to a working one, both sound driver and good music
    game gets released
    Director: Ahhhh, what a good game Lead Sound Designer, thanks so much for the work!
    Lead Sound Designer: No problem, I enjoyed directing the music
    Director: What music did you go with anyways?
    Lead Sound Designer: The Michael Jackson snapshot we had
    Director: YOU WHAT?

    this isn't probably how it happened but I still like to believe they ACCIDENTALLY released the MJ version of the music

    Reply
  • December 1, 2019 at 10:30 pm
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    Con eto, cualquier esperanza de una version de moviles oficiales de Sonic 3 se fue a la mierda, mas que nada por el asunto legal con Michael Jackson

    Reply
  • December 1, 2019 at 10:44 pm
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    Are the versions from 9:30 available anywhere??

    Reply
  • December 1, 2019 at 10:44 pm
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    AIR is nice

    Reply
  • December 1, 2019 at 10:46 pm
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    Really love the podcast feel to these videos, would like to see more like this in the future!
    But it really sucks that due to some business bullcrap and many other problems that Sega can't rerelease this glorious piece in Sonic history. We're honestly lucky they even rereleased Sonic 3 while this was going on and this will probably be the latest release we'll ever get. There's a saying that if you want to earn more money, you have to spend some money. Sonic 3 will most definitely sell because it's one of the best Sonic game in the whole franchise, but with the loyalties they must pay and the allegations from MJ, it's gonna hurt Sega a lot, possibly make them bankrupt (okay, that might not happen) but it wouldn't be the same game if they changed the music. At least there are wonderfully made projects created by hard-working people like Sonic 3 Complete or Sonic 3 A.I.R. An official port won't be coming any time soon, but if it were to happen one day, then they would give it their all and give us the defacto version of Sonic 3.

    Reply
  • December 1, 2019 at 11:07 pm
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    I've always thought SEGA won't let Taxman remake it cus they afraid of them fucking up the only Sonic game with no supposed cons…only pros

    Reply
  • December 1, 2019 at 11:15 pm
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    Your coool😎

    Reply
  • December 1, 2019 at 11:16 pm
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    RE: rebuilding the game to replace the music, Taxman and Stealth had a S3&K prototype all good to go a while back before they worked on Mania and we know they basically rebuild the game instead of using the source code. The fact that both have declined to comment on the status of S3&K following the release of Mania implies it's to do with legal shenanigans like you suggest.

    Reply
  • December 1, 2019 at 11:23 pm
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    My only question is, why not let Christian Whitehead do their remake and maybe let someone do new music?

    That would eliminate having to place it into the original rom since their stuff is usually built from the ground up anyway. Would also eliminate having to license from the previous composers.

    I mean maybe I’m missing something but I’ve already seen at least one pretty good alternate ost for Sonic 3 on YouTube

    Reply
  • December 1, 2019 at 11:32 pm
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    M2 can easily hack the games, did everyone foget about the AGES games in Nintendo Switch? those games were hacked to include new features, it's weird that there are still companies that do that

    Reply
  • December 1, 2019 at 11:44 pm
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    If SEGA wanted to re-release Sonic 3, they would have to pay the original music composers secretly then pay again to use those songs again

    Reply
  • December 2, 2019 at 12:29 am
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    At least the copyright aren't like how Tetris didn't give Pajintov any money until several years after

    Reply
  • December 2, 2019 at 1:00 am
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    I think they left it in not to deal with it taking forever because music takes forever to make
    I have tried and…
    Yeah its bad
    But Yeah I think they had not enogh time
    So Yeah pretty good video

    Reply
  • December 2, 2019 at 1:02 am
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    Ive never played a sonic game other than Generations but i love your writing and your voice is one of the nicest ive heard. Genuinely fascinating stuff

    Reply
  • December 2, 2019 at 1:02 am
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    With respect to the Masato Nakamura situation, it might be worth noting that the most recent Sonic movie trailer includes an arrangement of the Green Hill Zone theme.

    Reply
  • December 2, 2019 at 1:07 am
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    Great, now I'm fearing Sega's potential bankruptcy

    Reply
  • December 2, 2019 at 1:11 am
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    Wouldn't the presence of the prototype soundtrack in the PC collection provide an indication that SEGA does have some idea as to who composed what, though?

    Reply
  • December 2, 2019 at 1:30 am
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    Very informative videos with a lot of effort. Good job

    Reply
  • December 2, 2019 at 1:30 am
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    Why don't people just ask the current SEGA staff about why Sonic 3 is no longer getting re-released? Or is SEGA also going to pretend these questions don't exist.

    Reply
  • December 2, 2019 at 1:34 am
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    What about the music from Sonic Mania? That used remixed tracks from Sonic 3. The music for hydrocity Zone was most likely done by C Sirocco Jones a Michael Jackson contributor with there track "The Water". I would like an explanation of how Hydrocity Zone's music could be remixed for Sonic Mania. Another question I have is who did the music for Flying Battery zone? I ask because the music and stage were almost complete for the release of Sonic 3. Is it an MJ track?

    Reply
  • December 2, 2019 at 1:35 am
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    Thanks for covering this so thoroughly. I've been following it on Sonic Retro since it was released.

    Reply
  • December 2, 2019 at 1:40 am
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    I feel like the music licensing process needs to change

    Reply
  • December 2, 2019 at 2:36 am
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    My theory for why they ended up using Michael Jackson’s music in the final game is that since The music that is used in the final game that is in the prototype is unfinished, I think that the music that wasn’t used In the final game was also unfinished and they didn’t have enough time to polish it and finish it so they just ended up replacing them with Michael Jackson’s music which was almost finished and put it in the final game.

    Reply
  • December 2, 2019 at 3:43 am
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    I highly doubt the TMNT case was an issue of the original composer not allowing the use of his soundtrack, considering it was composed by Mutsuhiko Izumi who is currently still a Konami employee after all these years. And knowing Konami, they have no issue doing whatever they want with their sound team. Just look at the BEMANI Sound Team debacle… which, ironically, Izumi is also a huge part of.

    Reply
  • December 2, 2019 at 4:42 am
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    I thought of a possible way that they could release the game with the prototype music. Have the crew behind the mobile releases of Sonic 1 and 2 to make Sonic 3 and Knuckles from the ground, but then replace the soundtrack for the prototype one.

    Reply
  • December 2, 2019 at 4:55 am
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    13:10 you'd need someone who understood hacking the genesis? You mean like maybe Christian whitehead? Just maybe?

    Reply
  • December 2, 2019 at 5:44 am
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    Well this is disappointing, atleast we have sonic air and other mods to mess around with.

    Reply
  • December 2, 2019 at 6:16 am
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    Honestly I think you’re overselling the situation on using the pc collection music on any hypothetical new port of sonic 3 and the fandom’s reaction.

    If anything, the fact that the pcc tracks are native to the md version’s development makes Sega’s lack of balls look worse.

    Everyone gets why you don’t fuck with an estate that might have been complicit in the death a pop legend just as he was to stage a comeback tour and has since got litigious. No one is sympathetic to sitting on your arse when a sidestep to the pit of vipers is right there and you have an army of rabid fans and professionals who could build the bridge.

    So yeah, if Sega won’t move then I will.
    Sonic 3 is Abandonware.
    Fuck sega and may their randomizer chests only have five rupees.

    Reply
  • December 2, 2019 at 7:34 am
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    Lol you have lots of rom hackers and even programs that allow you to edit the roms, that being "dificult" is ridiculous.

    Reply
  • December 2, 2019 at 7:44 am
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    You should have mentioned that Roger Hector said that MJ asked to do the soundtrack(as well as how they had discussed with him Sonic 3's story, design, themes, world etc.) and that he had recorded a soundtrack which in his words "fitted all world perfectly" and that in his words "it had to be replaced and that it's a shame nobody will ever hear it".
    Also should have mentioned that one of the members of MJ's team said they had composed 41 tracks which basically confirms Roger Hector's previous claims about how MJ composed an entire soundtrack.

    Also should mention that Buxer only claimed he had composed Stranger in Moscow 5-6 months after MJ died which makes him very suspicious.

    About Sonic CD's songs. They actually got the rights in 2012, that's what I remember reading at Retro. Sega just never bothered to add the songs back into the remaster.

    Reply
  • December 2, 2019 at 8:08 am
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    If SEGA owned that "performance" of Sonic 1 and 2's soundtrack, why is it that when they put the tracks on anything taken from the game, all copyrights go to Nakumura? Also, SEGA have remixed Green Hill and I've never seen him credited. Take Sonic Advance 3 and Sonic Battle for example.

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  • December 2, 2019 at 8:25 am
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    In regards to Sega possibly owning the full rights to Sonic 1 and 2's music, the Sonic levels in Lego Dimensions and Sonic Forces use original music for zones that are supposed to be from the originals, so it's very likely that Generations was more a temporary license on Sega's part.

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  • December 2, 2019 at 9:48 am
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    I never knew about composers owning their music. I always thought that unless you stipulate that in your contract, it's the corporation's by default because they would stipulate that they own it and refuse to hire anyone who wouldn't agree to that. That would explain why the only video game soundtracks I ever see sold by the composers are for indie games and never for large corporations like Capcom. I mean, if that's the case, why don't we see the vast majority of video game composers selling their music? Nintendo has sold the Super Mario Bros theme many time, and Koji Kondo never tries to sell his music on Bandcamp or CDs.

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  • December 2, 2019 at 10:03 am
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    No offense to Drossin, but the Sonic Spinball title theme is vastly inferior to the one they were originally going to go with. Such a downgrade.

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  • December 2, 2019 at 11:19 am
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    this reminds me i need to go download amyrose in sonic 3 a.i.r.

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  • December 2, 2019 at 11:20 am
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    I want the original emerald hill zone music not from the Sega Genesis but from the Japanese person who made the song

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  • December 2, 2019 at 11:22 am
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    also dr x has released an updated version which has the data from lava reef re constructed using collision data from s3c v4*** ( icant remember the last four digits of the 2nd version of s3&k proto/scrapped compilation game from before they went with lock on carts) you still need debug to through it and there is no bosses but still cool to see it.

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  • December 2, 2019 at 1:13 pm
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    you sound like snot from american dad lol

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  • December 2, 2019 at 1:21 pm
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    I learned a lot from this video about music. I at first wanted to hire a composer or 2 to compose my music for my future video game projects. And for my band to play and record them. But now, I'm considering to make all the music myself. Everything! And my music is VERY Sonic Adventure, Sonic CD and Crush 40 inspired. I'm considering working alone bc of the whole copyright law thing. Like when you said, the composer own the song bc he created it, and the company owns the converted song bc they performed it. To me it sounds like a huge risk of going to court just to see who owns the music. And with my original project I can NOT have ANYONE owning a small piece of my work. I'm pretty stangee could I say.

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  • December 2, 2019 at 2:32 pm
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    I think there is some special edge case concerning the PC as Sega are actively selling Sonic 3 on the PC, hell there is a Humble Sonic bundle happening right now and Sonic 3 & Knuckles is one of the games, what is so special about the PC? Sure there just Mega Drive roms running through an emulator but it contains all the same data as the console versions. If it really is about music licensing how did they get around that for the soundtrack releases of the music?

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  • December 2, 2019 at 4:01 pm
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    This situations sucks, this is how great games get forgotten, Sonic 3 deserves better than to fall in obscurity!

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  • December 2, 2019 at 4:16 pm
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    I really enjoyed this video, informative but no where near boring. Keep it up 🙂

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  • December 2, 2019 at 5:39 pm
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    The situation with Sonic 3 & Knuckles sucks for sure, but you have to look at the one positive aspect of this whole thing; the game is still available on Steam. That means literally anyone with a PC can play it. Everyone with a PC purchased after 2000 (literally) can play Sonic 3 & Knuckles. For that, I am thankful.

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  • December 2, 2019 at 6:13 pm
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    Sonic 3 AIR: best way to play a classic.

    Sonic 3 Complete: Best way to play if you have a emulator.

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  • December 2, 2019 at 6:42 pm
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    I want Sonic 3 monile so far!!!!!!

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  • December 2, 2019 at 8:10 pm
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    The Definitive Way to Play Sonic 3 – Part 2 (Supplemental Podcast)

    And Knuckles

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  • December 2, 2019 at 8:29 pm
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    ANOTHER ONE FVCK IT MAKE A MOVIE

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  • December 3, 2019 at 12:17 am
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    This is like a sonic 3 documentary i like watching these we need sonic 3 now

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  • December 3, 2019 at 12:55 am
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    what about Sonic 3 and knuckles on mobile?

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  • December 3, 2019 at 1:18 am
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    You mentioned that they'd need someone to hack the music in and that's true for any emulated releases but what about for a Taxman and Stealth Sonic 3 remaster? Replacing music in the Retro Engine literally is just dropping some files in a folder. When I saw the Prototype, I was really hoping now there might finally be a way to get that remaster to see the light of day.

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  • December 3, 2019 at 6:12 am
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    why'd you just leave the last syllable off of Jun Senoue's name

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  • December 3, 2019 at 7:20 am
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    So now starts the battle of the impossibles… which will happen first, Mother 3 getting an official worldwide release or Sonic 3 being re-released?
    The answer: who the hell cares at this point when some very talented fans picked up the slack and did the work for them. 🙂

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  • December 3, 2019 at 8:46 am
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    I can't stress enough how much you sound like Snot from American Dad

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  • December 3, 2019 at 11:05 am
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    Sonic Mega Collection is the best because it has near perfect emulations of all the Genesis games, and feels great with GameCube/ps2 controller

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  • December 3, 2019 at 12:36 pm
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    Basically, fuck music licensing.

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  • December 3, 2019 at 2:26 pm
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    Very comprehensive. Thank you.

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  • December 3, 2019 at 2:44 pm
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    In my opinion the best way to play Sonic 3 nowadays is Retroarch.

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  • December 3, 2019 at 3:30 pm
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    I love your voice you sound like Otacon from Metal Gear.

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  • December 3, 2019 at 4:09 pm
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    Great vid. Currently playing sonic 3 complete DIY cart on mega drive… Its awesome! Oh btw, has anyone told you that your voice sounds just like snot from American dad? 😂

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  • December 3, 2019 at 5:48 pm
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    I don't think Sega owns the music or even bought the rights from Nakamura. In Generations' case, they probably just asked him for permission to do remixes. Also, I should point out that the exact same thing already happened before with Sonic Adventure 2 (where you unlock Green Hill by collecting all emblems) and Sonic Advance (Fun fact: there's an Android port of Advance that's available for free but only came out in Japan, this port replaced the music from Sonic 1 & 2 with the music from Sonic 4).

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  • December 3, 2019 at 6:33 pm
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    In conclusion
    Business sucks

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  • December 3, 2019 at 7:02 pm
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    Me:I requested this fan game dabs

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  • December 3, 2019 at 8:59 pm
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    It's almost as if none of the people involved really care…

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  • December 4, 2019 at 12:00 am
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    So you made a "Bonus Video", right?

    Dude, I just wish that guy never left…

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  • December 4, 2019 at 2:44 am
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    My problem with your music licensing is that it don't make sense.
    i'm not a music license expert, but if they own the peformance and can only use genesis renditions , then how did they made Sonic GBA port where music sounded wastly different (i mean, you can argue they actually paid nakamura that time or they made a truce during this time)
    But then , here's a big one, if they cannot use sonic 3 music at all and they need their blessings, they def have a list on who did what because drum rolls Sonic mania used couple of sonic 3 zones and remixed their musics, meaning , in your theory, they had to find OG composers and ask for permision to include different peformances of those songs in Sonic Mania.
    I think that in the end, those couple tracks are the ones they having problem with it, but exclusively those tracks.

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  • December 4, 2019 at 3:15 am
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    FUCK I THOUGHT CYBER WAS BACK

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  • December 4, 2019 at 5:13 am
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    I just finished part 1 lol

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  • December 4, 2019 at 9:20 am
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    Thinking about it like this, I actually feel bad for SEGA. I talked with Aaron Webber at SXSW 2019, and he pretty much implied without saying straight up, that he wants Sonic 3 to come out again but they can’t. I hope everything gets cleared up someday

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  • December 4, 2019 at 9:37 am
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    ok but s3andk is segas best game so figure it out

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  • December 4, 2019 at 7:27 pm
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    "That's bussiness" means "Because capitalism".

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  • December 4, 2019 at 7:53 pm
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    8:01 GOOD LORD MY FUCKING EARS!!!

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  • December 5, 2019 at 4:17 pm
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    This video and your original way on the definitive way to play Sonic 3 is a fascinating retrospective-style overview of just how much stuff went into the development and music production of Sonic 3. The rabbit hole goes deeper than I thought, and I already knew about MJ's involvement with Sonic 3's soundtrack (but not stuff like the potential lawsuit and the weird discrepancies between subsequent rereleases).

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  • December 5, 2019 at 10:00 pm
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    sega megadrive collection for xbox 360

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  • December 6, 2019 at 8:25 am
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    I wonder what the specific terms were for different performances of the music. The MIDI versions were clearly treated differently because of the instrument sounds. They're apparently allowed to use Ice Cap Zone in S3&K since it's still part of Sonic 3, but if the mini-boss theme appeared in later stages it would seemingly require a separate agreement.

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  • December 6, 2019 at 2:18 pm
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    3:52 Nah, we saw it! 3D blast, they just don't want to admit it. 😛

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  • December 6, 2019 at 6:59 pm
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    Again!? Love your channel

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  • December 6, 2019 at 7:03 pm
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    So sonic 3 was pose to be 3D?

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  • December 6, 2019 at 8:48 pm
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    For some-reason it's says the video came out Dec.1.2019 not Nov.30.2019

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  • December 7, 2019 at 12:55 am
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    This additional part 2 is good but not as good as part 1's take on the whole Sonic 3 story.

    1. Sonic Advance on GBA used some of Masato Nakamura's tunes and there were no legal issues going on then in 2001 which predates Sonic Generations by 11 years. Something you forgot to mention in the video.

    2. The (November 3rd Sonic 3 Prototype) predates the final version of Sonic 3 by 3 months and the prototype has no Michael Jackson music or music by any of his 6 collaborators so it's fair to say that MJ and his team were only involved in the last 3 months of working on the game.

    3. SEGA can easily re-release Sonic 3 and Sonic 3 & Knuckles again if they really want to, it's not that hard to get an expert Mega Drive-Genesis editor on board to change the entire soundtrack if music licensing is the real problem surrounding Sonic 3. What would be even easier is for SEGA to just create an entirely new port of the game, something like A.I.R. and include a new score. Time constraints is not that much of an issue as it was back in the Mega Drive days, now days we can wait years for a single project to be finished and also there is always (Sonic 3 Complete) and to make that official Sega would have to track down all the people involved and pay them something for it but it is still possible.

    I hope Sega have learned a valuable lesson with the likes of Sonic 3 when composing and producing an original score to one of their own games. Never outsource the music to free-lancers who work outside SEGA like Masato Nakamura or even Yuzo Koshiro as one day music licensing issues may create a problem and we as the fans are caught in the middle. If they do get outsiders to make the music to their games, they sould make sure that they sign legal agreements in Sega's favour. Far easier though to just stick to in-house composers who work for SEGA, that way SEGA own all the music period.

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  • December 7, 2019 at 3:19 am
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    the sonic 1 and 2 music theory doesn't really check out though because official remixes of the green hill theme were made before sonic generations

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  • December 7, 2019 at 4:30 am
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    So is the topic of the video the reason we have that devilish Sonic CD boss fight music in America?

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  • December 7, 2019 at 5:06 am
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    I love Sonic 3 & Knuckles/Sonic 3 Complete and I don't want the game to be buried. And by the way, there is no evidence that Michael Jackson molested children (To be more specific, there is no evidence that MJ molested boys). Look up an interview on YouTube where Larry King interviewed Macaulay Culkin and according to Culkin, while Culkin was at MJ's house spending time with MJ, MJ did not have pedophile sex with Culkin. So, with that being said, MJ was innocent. Period. End of story. That's all she wrote. You false accusers who accuse Michael Jackson have no evidence that Jackson was a child predator. No evidence. Nothing. Nada. Zilch. Zero. Give it up. Build a bridge and get over it. Get a life.

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  • December 7, 2019 at 5:10 am
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    I guess you could say that when it comes to re-releasing Sonic 3, Sega would have some… hard times

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  • December 7, 2019 at 4:13 pm
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    This guy's voice sounds like God's scribe

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  • December 7, 2019 at 10:44 pm
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    It's so annoying how overprotected music is. Music licensing needs an overhaul.

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  • December 8, 2019 at 1:12 am
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    Woah, WinAmp. How retro!

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  • December 8, 2019 at 7:07 am
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    𝗪𝗵𝗲𝗿𝗲 𝗰𝗮𝗻 𝗶 𝗳𝗶𝗻𝗱 𝗠𝗮𝘀𝗮𝘁𝗼 𝗡𝗮𝗸𝗮𝗺𝘂𝗿𝗮‘𝘀 𝘀𝘁𝘂𝗱𝗶𝗼 𝗺𝘂𝘀𝗶𝗰?

    Reply
  • December 8, 2019 at 8:48 am
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    18:22 What if fans funded legal trouble sorting along with SEGA? I'm more than sure that there would be plenty of people who would chip in for such an undertaking, even if it only results in 1 "Taxman & Stealth" port in the end.

    Also, I'm not a lawyer: if this idea would be a lot more complicated in execution… Well, I'd actually find it interesting how it would actually work, but at the same time, please don't yell at me.

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  • December 8, 2019 at 7:43 pm
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    I wouldn't want Sonic 3 without its original mega drive music anyway unless it was a total remaster with improved graphics, even then I would want the same tracks remixed or just improved. Hope you don't mind me saying but you sound like Hal Emmerich (Otacon) from the metal gear solid games 😂

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  • December 9, 2019 at 8:04 am
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    If the soundtrack is an issue, they could just make a brand new one. Modern Sonic games still have great soundtracks, so I'm sure it'll still be enjoyable. Fresh contracts, no legal issues, no confusion. Yeah it wouldn't be the perfect method, but its better than pretending that Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles doesn't exist.
    Something is better than nothing. Or maybe SEGA just needs to get off their duff and address this music licensing issue once and for all.

    Reply

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