Hello and welcome to Restro Retipes.. Restro Reti… Hello Well, on the menu today on Retro Recipes We’re g… I said it! We’re gonna be exploring our fingers Yeah, no, no not those.. fingers Although, fish and chips.. hmm Well, actually today, funnily enough, we’re gonna be fixing chips See I think it’s fair to say that on the Commodore 64 There can be many different faults You’ll notice if you saw my hammer repair video Or the three-hour live collaborative repair attempt video But I think it’s also fair to say that more often than not Problem comes down to one thing Actually, eight things Yeah, the ham.. the RAM Not ham.. hm Now I do understand, and I see in the comments of my videos That a lot of people who haven’t tried soldering before are understandably wary of doing that So today we’re going to be showing you a way that you can both diagnose and fix Perhaps the most common Commodore 64 fault Using just.. your fingers Welcome to Retro Recipes So, here’s the machine in question T his was given to us by David Philippe Gil and you can see here the problem Similar story with Jupiter Lander, which is a handy car crush to use because it doesn’t require the kernel and some other chips. We can help narrow things down If we consult the pictorial C64 fault guide You can see the section with, by far, the most faults is the RAM section And this looks pretty similar So, let’s verify this using the (American accent) Commodore Diagnostics and Utilities Cartridge.. .. Thing Now this is interesting It’s giving one flash and then waiting and repeating that one flash So let’s check the (American accent) Diagnostics Manual It says here if a RAM error id Detected the screen will begin flashing It seems like what’s happening One flash means Chip U12 So, so far we haven’t used any tools Now if you’ll excuse the use of a screwdriver here I do want to show you that how you can diagnose and fix this using just your fingers So here is U12. Oh, sorry! That’s the LEGO version Here, is U12 But while I remember, please if you haven’t voted for Lego to mass produce this BrixtyFour, please do So in the intro, I mentioned that we’re going to be exploring just our fingers Or of course we could use the Paws So what I’m gonna do is feel each chip And.. ow.. That one is noticeably hotter than the others And that is U12 Now I’ll just prove the point here using the (American accent) Thermo Meter It’s just a thermometer You can see there, that Chip U12 is indeed at least 5 degrees hotter than all the others So we’re gonna need some new RAM chips Excuse me. Hi, sorry. Do you sell RAM Chips? Um.. there we go. Sorry, what’s that? Is a Ham Chip. (laughs) Not ham chips, RAM chips. Do you sell RAM Chips? Oh Oh, sorry, they’re out of stock Oh, you’re out of stock of RAM? Okay. Thanks anyway Yeah, where’s Ashley when you need it, Well not to worry cuz I found these at ASDA So what I’m gonna do is piggyback this new chip on top of the faulty one And piggybacking just means push it down using the spring tension of the new pins So that it makes contact with all the pins Right down to the PCB And the same on the other side all making good contact there Now if we turn it on Yes! The blue screen of .. life And out there test works As does the SID Chip We can leave this running for a number of counts Now it’s important to note that this piggybacking technique Is generally only possible with RAM Chips But why is that and why does it work? Well, you see, RAM chips are what’s known as tri-state logic This just means that the chip is capable of three states It can either be pulling current from the bus Creating a zero Supplying current to the bus Creating a one Or in a high impedance state High impedance, also known as High-Z, basically means the chip is electrically.. Sort of invisible to the rest of the circuit The use of this is really essential in shared electronic buses Just like the one the 8 Commodore 64 RAM chips share I can demonstrate this pretty simply with a multimeter And set it to continuity mode The meter will beep whenever it detects a connected circuit or trace And so you can see here how the aged RAM chips are indeed all sitting in seats on the same bus That’s terrifying And with RAM, if the chip is faulty, usually signified by it overheating like that It falls into that third high impedance state Effectively just becoming invisible to the rest of the circuit On screen, this causes that garbled data that we saw A simplified explanation of why it feels hot to the touch Is that the voltage sort of accumulates in the chip rather than passing through to the rest of the circuit When you piggyback a working chip on top of that invisible faulty chip You’re really just connecting a chip to a motherboard that thought that there was no chip in there at all So that’s how you diagnose and fix the most common Commodore 64 fault using just your fingers And a screwdriver Now if you wanted and you weren’t gonna be carting this Commodore 64 to your mates house everyday You could leave this as is maybe secure it down there with some thermal tape But because we have got the tools here We’re gonna do it properly and desolder socket and reinstall this new chip in its place And while we’re doing that I think we’ll just beautify this board a little bit and recap it just for good measure But first.. Well, we didn’t have any luck with our HAM Chips of RAM chips, but I did find this Now this reminds me, I want to give him very special thanks and shouts out to all of my Patrons Especially Jonathan Howard who didn’t join the Silver Patron level But even higher he joined the Rhodium level Which includes a special on-camera greeting and a thank you So at some point I’ll have to film that But thanks seriously to all my Patrons You really helped support this small retro channel And I couldn’t do it without you Or that Maybe next time So we can definitely give this board a bit of a cleanup Ew. Yeah, this RF shield is effectively useless Put that on eBay (crashing noise) Let me get out our anti-static brush And then to remove the bottom RS shield We’ll use the fence (desoldering tool noise) We’ll use the Fanta we’ll use this We’ll.. uh.. we’ll use this.. Let me just leaver off of these tabs after sucking them dry Eh.. removing the solder (crashing noise) Calm down From time to time we do need to empty the chamber Which is easily done (desoldering noise) Then we’ll just clean up nicely where those tabs were And then we can actually desolder that faulty chip Firstly we’ll add some new solder to get all the flux flowing We’ll drop in our socket I’m just gonna hold it down here with some thermal tape And then what I like to do is solder both opposing corners first And that way it holds it in tightly while you solder all the other pins And here’s our new chip from ASDA I found it in the freezer section And let’s test our work Yay! (higher pitched) Yay! So we’re gonna recap the board now, but first we need to move the dog out of the way And this recap kit is again from the excellent Retroleum By the way, if you can’t even get to this stage in your Commodore 64 PCB is just beyond repair You could always design your own completely new one Like this one by the fantastically named RJAM Verse Loot I’ll put a link in the description And they could send the designs off to PCBWay Because as we all know PCB stands for Piggybacked Clone Board (desoldering tool noise) Oh, pardon me Now just to recap, we were just about to recap Make sure we put on new ones in the correct way around Polarity does matter Looking good so far! That’s weird.. So the solder actually went through that hole and came out the other end like a metal worm To save myself turning around the board constantly, I’m gonna desolder all of the same type of capacitor now in one go There’s the old ones There’s the new ones Ladies and gentlemen, the world’s first Commodore 64 Guitar Now removing this VIC shield to get to lead capacitor under there is always tricky But I’m gonna try this soft plastic Lego brick removal tool Hey that worked really well! I’ve got some thermal paste on my thumb there Um.. Yeah, we’ll just clean off this old one (struggling) It glued itself shit Just a little dab Not that kind of DAB kids There you go, there’s the heat chip for the Vic sink.. or something And then we’ll just spray our alcohol And clean up all the flux from those new capacitors Looking really nice Hey, that’s me! We’ll do one final test although I’m pretty sure I got them all in the right way round And yes time for a nice game of Jupiter Lander I will do one final test That is, have the keyboard in place So it just remains for me and the Commodore 64 To say I hope you found this video about how piggybacking works illuminating. Thanks for watching. Please like and subscriiiibe Comment below and Cheerio! Is a ham chip

How Piggybacking RAM Works: Fix Computers With Just Your Fingers  (see pinned comment)
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100 thoughts on “How Piggybacking RAM Works: Fix Computers With Just Your Fingers  (see pinned comment)

  • January 13, 2019 at 11:21 pm
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    Could you just make the piggybacked ram chip a permanent repair by soldering it to the duff one below? Or is that a bad idea because of extra load on the power bus etc?

    Reply
  • January 14, 2019 at 12:14 am
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    super beautiful robot .

    Reply
  • January 14, 2019 at 12:18 am
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    Man, I’d shop at WalMart a lot more if I were you.

    Reply
  • January 14, 2019 at 12:26 am
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    Where is that website you looked at that showed images of possible solutions to screen displays?

    Reply
  • January 14, 2019 at 1:03 am
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    I have a Commodore Plus/4 with 4264-15 RAM chips, can I use a 4264-10 chip to replace one of them?

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  • January 14, 2019 at 1:12 am
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    74LS257??? Good luck getting that to work piggybacked on a RAM!!

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  • January 14, 2019 at 1:25 am
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    I was wondering what you was smoking to be so mellow when you go to the tequila

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  • January 14, 2019 at 4:15 am
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    Nice job, piggy backing won't work if the outputs are shorted to 5v or GND. I would replace the entire lot of DRAMs. Those mT branded one are prone to failure.

    Reply
  • January 14, 2019 at 4:27 am
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    Retro Recipes is a tongs twister isn't it. Say it five times faster.

    Reply
  • January 14, 2019 at 6:40 pm
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    Restroom Recipes?

    Reply
  • January 14, 2019 at 7:22 pm
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    Great video yet again, I've seen piggy backing used to find faulty ram on the Acorn Electron. The difference being that with a faulty chip the electron displayed just a white screen. When a good chip was placed over the faulty one the system booted to a prompt but after 2-3 seconds started to become garbled. Test was good for finding bad chips but dem' chips needed replacing. Interesting to learn that the Commodore can function with good ram stuck over the bad indefinitely.

    Reply
  • January 14, 2019 at 7:42 pm
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    kanye west love fish sticks

    Reply
  • January 14, 2019 at 9:34 pm
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    LOVE that shirt!

    Reply
  • January 14, 2019 at 10:16 pm
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    I love Haaaam chips 😉

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  • January 14, 2019 at 10:57 pm
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    Another awesome video! (Made even better with puppy!) Thanks for the info on piggybacking chips. I have a board or two that might have a bad RAM chip, and recently ordered a whole bunch of new ones, so I'll try this method to diagnose before desoldering anything (which without a desoldering gun like you have carries much more risk of lifting traces…at least I'm well beyond the days of using a propane blowtorch to remove chips, sometimes setting the board on fire [that board still works!]).

    Reply
  • January 15, 2019 at 4:54 am
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    So…just to be clear. Piggy backing won't work on any of the other chips?

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  • January 15, 2019 at 1:33 pm
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    Applying the brush, soft voice, sounding like Bob Ross: And clean up all the flux from those new capacitors…

    Reply
  • January 16, 2019 at 3:02 am
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    I will be trying this shortly (hopefully, waiting on some chips to come in), as Monday night my 64 quit. Referencing the same Ram chip on the same revision of board with the Dead Test Cartridge. I hope that is all it is, I was really looking forward to using it. I like the videos being entertaining as well as informative as usual.

    Reply
  • January 16, 2019 at 12:23 pm
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    do you think this would work for more modern machines?

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  • January 16, 2019 at 7:38 pm
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    Wow 100 degrees, you can boil a water on the top of the chip.
    Oh wait it is just a retarded unit, actually it is just about 37.7C, still safe to touch.

    Reply
  • January 16, 2019 at 7:44 pm
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    Restroom Recipies?

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  • January 16, 2019 at 9:15 pm
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    Is that "new" chip why the freezers aren't working anymore at that store? 😛

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  • January 16, 2019 at 11:24 pm
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    Does it matter what chip you use to piggyback? The 74LS257ANA you used was a 3 state multiplexer, so definitely not a ram chip.

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  • January 17, 2019 at 1:04 am
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    You didn't put the shielding back on. It was already the largest source of radio frequency interference in your neighborhood and now it's naked.

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  • January 17, 2019 at 3:11 am
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    Pretty neat video. Bigger fan of babyback ribs though 😉

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  • January 17, 2019 at 3:34 am
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    Plz, do us all a favor and kill the high frequencies in your video, are they feedback from your microphone? As a young (sub 18) viewer watching the video, the intro hurt.

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  • January 17, 2019 at 5:55 am
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    Just when I get your songs out of my head you release another video…

    Reply
  • January 17, 2019 at 1:32 pm
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    Hello perifractic, great video and very clear how to do this. would the same procedure work on any computer, such as zx spectrums? Also have you done any videos on these? Cheers, Nick.

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  • January 18, 2019 at 4:25 am
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    She is cute.

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  • January 18, 2019 at 12:45 pm
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    Geez that high pitched noise xD kinda like it tho. I’m 18

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  • January 18, 2019 at 12:46 pm
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    You have high frequency content in your audio.

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  • January 18, 2019 at 6:08 pm
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    ??? Whar are you doing at 6:52 ? The 74LS257 is an Quad 2-Data Selectors/Multiplexers. Your chip, where you pigg (U12) is an 4164 what means an 64k x 1 bit ramchip.

    And at 5:26 the 74HC14 ( U8 ) ist an HEX-inverter and has no tristate !!!

    Reply
  • January 18, 2019 at 7:49 pm
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    "Coprolite Computer By-Products" hahaha
    In case you you're reading this and didn't know, coprolite is fossilized turds!

    Reply
  • January 19, 2019 at 5:49 am
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    Thank you for the clarification. I wondered why there were 2 chip sockets. We're all pretty eagle-eyed out her in view land you know 😉 Thank you for you channel and excellent videos.

    Reply
  • January 19, 2019 at 8:43 am
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    Are You kidding? Piggybacking 64kbit DRAM with a TTL MUX? More proof for this idiotic "solution" is opposite location of power pins on DRAM and TTL. In that position this TTL chip will be fired by reversing power in seconds.

    Reply
  • January 19, 2019 at 2:20 pm
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    My ears are bleeding.

    Reply
  • January 19, 2019 at 4:46 pm
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    Nice vid, but the chip you were piggybacking was not a RAM chip, was a 74LS series

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  • January 19, 2019 at 6:30 pm
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    Piggybacked/Stacked 256k chips on my C64 1764 REU way back when.

    Reply
  • January 19, 2019 at 7:39 pm
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    can't seem to find the music used when re-capping
    would love to listen to that when working on electronics myself 🙂

    Reply
  • January 19, 2019 at 9:07 pm
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    this is such a cool youtube channel, i dont get it why it only has 29k subs, it really desserves more, even with the really bad acting lol .

    Reply
  • January 20, 2019 at 11:25 am
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    Excuse me sir, i need those ham-chips. Thank you.

    Reply
  • January 21, 2019 at 10:49 am
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    What I want to know is why these RAM chips go bad all the time.

    Fascinating topic, Retro Recipes!

    Reply
  • January 21, 2019 at 12:13 pm
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    Quick question, just wondering if this works for Colour Ram? -Mark.

    Reply
  • January 21, 2019 at 7:01 pm
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    OK, learned something today. Piggybacking is a cool concept – especially for those of us who lack any solder experience.

    Reply
  • January 21, 2019 at 8:25 pm
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    wen you read a bottle of patron (pah trone) and mention yer patreon… nice try but no bro thats a bit cringy

    Reply
  • January 22, 2019 at 8:59 am
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    Reto Restripries got the best commodroe 64 viedos

    Reply
  • January 22, 2019 at 10:00 pm
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    I wish I knew this before ruining my C64 mainboard with school's weak soldering equipment 🙁
    Well, at least I have the SID from it and the Ultimate-64 look promising…

    Reply
  • January 22, 2019 at 10:54 pm
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    Please refit the rf shield – it can interfere with radio signals.

    Reply
  • January 23, 2019 at 4:28 pm
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    I'm working on a SRAM adapter for the C64, not needing it YET, but if my RAM chips crap out I'm not hunting for replacements 😉 The board will socket under the ROM and have a pigtail to one of RAM sockets to source the multiplexed adresses, WE, CAS and RAS signals. Should work with both long and short boards.

    Reply
  • January 24, 2019 at 3:36 am
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    Your CRT's are causing a high pitch noise, would you be able to edit the noise out please? I know it can be mostly reduced

    Reply
  • January 24, 2019 at 12:52 pm
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    11:25 ish: what is the crusting / wrinkling on the back of the circuit board? I've seenbit a couple of times…

    Reply
  • January 26, 2019 at 1:12 pm
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    I had an old IBM PC where all memory chips was piggy back an soldered.
    I never understand that how worked.
    I changed a foulty chip and computer worked

    Reply
  • January 26, 2019 at 9:51 pm
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    im the only one that can hear that noise?

    Reply
  • January 27, 2019 at 7:12 pm
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    I'm 17 and i heard the CRT wine

    Reply
  • January 28, 2019 at 1:17 am
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    Whats the title of song starting around 7:55 ?

    Reply
  • January 28, 2019 at 4:22 am
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    A black ring on the left hand? Ace?

    Reply
  • January 28, 2019 at 9:41 pm
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    you shuld definetly get one of those soldering irons that have like one big wire that heats because these things can output stupid amounts of heat to solder masive ground planes in places where even a jbc station has problems

    Reply
  • January 29, 2019 at 5:45 pm
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    Is there a way to get information on the replacement C64 motherboards without joining Facebook?

    Reply
  • January 29, 2019 at 8:55 pm
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    The funny thing is that my calculator has more ram than this computer

    Reply
  • January 29, 2019 at 11:28 pm
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    I still going to say. What Wal-Mart do you go to? Every time I ask anything Computer related question at my Wal-Mart(s). I get blank stares like I am speaking a foreign language. Though maybe I should speak L33T again. Though I am a tad rusty. The accent may come through. Was Fuild once upon a time.

    Reply
  • January 30, 2019 at 3:42 am
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    Awesome channel glad I found it 👍

    Reply
  • January 30, 2019 at 5:46 pm
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    Почему не по руский

    Reply
  • January 31, 2019 at 10:45 pm
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    plz sync your audio better!

    Reply
  • February 2, 2019 at 4:08 am
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    i dont know but you have a very high piched noise in the intro

    Reply
  • February 4, 2019 at 2:51 pm
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    Great restoration vid! I never would've thought to diagnose the memory chips by touch, and it bows my mind that piggybacking even works. I'm bookmarking this for future reference when my 64s finally stop working. Amazingly, both are all-original, even down to the caps.

    Also, I could listen to your voice all day.

    Reply
  • February 4, 2019 at 2:53 pm
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    As an aside, thank you for the copious links in your video descriptions. They really make the vids more useful, and save a lot of time googling.

    Reply
  • February 7, 2019 at 3:17 pm
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    And why NOT that kind of dab?!? 😉

    Reply
  • February 12, 2019 at 1:05 pm
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    8:01 Hello. Why do you remove the RF shield ? Why it's useless now ?

    Reply
  • February 15, 2019 at 11:33 pm
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    That crt please your voice is ouch lmao but great video lmso

    Reply
  • February 17, 2019 at 7:57 am
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    you replace RAM(4264)to MUX(74257) ?

    Reply
  • February 18, 2019 at 9:02 am
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    I absolutely love how genuine you are and I can't get over it. I'd like to extend to you an alternate prespective; that YOU made it possible, with the help of your patrons. To understand this see patrons as passionate people, because passionate people help others who are passionate live their dreams. That being said, Because you had to start by being passionate, then recognize it, then want to share it, stop caring about the thoughts of other and go for it. And that created a space where other genuine people can feel comfortable, and be in the moment and by doing that they want to help in any way they can. Because you are you.

    Wish you the best.

    Reply
  • February 26, 2019 at 12:29 am
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    I LOVE your quote, “The blue screen of …LIFE” good old commodore!

    Reply
  • February 28, 2019 at 8:08 pm
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    Pls use a highpass filter

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  • February 28, 2019 at 8:11 pm
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    2:53 yeah no big deal because they are so similar. I mean they are booth bricked.

    Reply
  • March 3, 2019 at 7:40 am
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    Take a tip from the 8-bit guy about the crt wine.

    Reply
  • March 14, 2019 at 2:26 am
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    0:26 never say that to a northern person, they'll think you're fixing up a plate of chips 😉

    Reply
  • March 22, 2019 at 11:04 am
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    You let your dog lick lead solder?????

    Reply
  • March 29, 2019 at 12:53 pm
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    Very interesting…That desoldering gun is a nice bit of kit.

    Reply
  • April 1, 2019 at 9:03 am
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    Don’t forget the heatsinks on the SID, CPU and the PLA. Have replace the PLA’s on the 250425 and 250466 boards with a SuperPLA V4. All the chips on it have IC Sockets. The best C64 boards for me is the 250425 and the 250466.

    Reply
  • April 14, 2019 at 8:25 am
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    Awesome video….thank you

    Reply
  • April 14, 2019 at 10:31 pm
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    03:11 10:05 OMG ITS SOOO CUTE! LOVE IT!

    Reply
  • April 21, 2019 at 5:40 am
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    LOL so fun to see the blue screen of live again, better than Windows with those blue screen of dead;)

    Reply
  • May 12, 2019 at 8:25 pm
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    Refurbish an ACORN ELECTRON NEXT ?

    Reply
  • May 24, 2019 at 3:12 pm
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    WTH? I wasn't subscribed to you! D:

    Well, that's fixed now 😀

    Reply
  • May 24, 2019 at 3:16 pm
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    74LS257 is a mux chip my dude 😛 Specifically it's a quad 2 input multiplexer with three state outputs.

    Reply
  • May 25, 2019 at 1:38 am
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    Why do you consider the shielding worthless? did it really provide no benefit?

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  • June 22, 2019 at 7:13 am
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    Please drop the "funny" thing. You do it too many times. You will gain in views

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  • June 23, 2019 at 2:14 pm
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    If i do this i would afraid the old chip may interfere with the new chip, strange this is not the case …

    Reply
  • July 4, 2019 at 7:40 pm
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    Really good video, the description of doing a continuity test was great. Now i can keep investigating a black screen on my A500

    Reply
  • July 11, 2019 at 10:39 am
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    Have Ashley get the key for that Patron! haha Cheers!

    Reply
  • July 12, 2019 at 8:16 am
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    does this method work on Spectrum 128k +2?

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  • July 13, 2019 at 7:20 pm
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    The heat caused by shorts that disabled some of the functionality of the RAM Chip causing the RAM chip to dissipate too much power. If am open had occurred to the power feeds the chip, it could have been colder than the other normally operating ICs. If the fault had made the RAM chip still outputting some data, your piggybacking technique would have failed to pass the RAM test. The bad part must always. Be removed, as over time, it could become more defective and interfere with the operation of the piggybacked RAM chip, so I totally disagree with you idea to leave the old part in place.

    Reply
  • July 17, 2019 at 2:20 am
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    I upgraded the ram in my TS/1000 this way. I was able to stack 2 2k chips on the existing chip giving me a whole 6k!

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  • July 20, 2019 at 9:48 am
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    74ls257 is nor RAM but multiplexor!

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  • July 27, 2019 at 6:58 pm
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    The only chips my Asda does is of the McCain variety 🙁

    Reply
  • August 2, 2019 at 8:46 pm
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    What I’m the actual hell is that high pitch screeching noise.

    Reply
  • August 11, 2019 at 7:41 pm
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    https://youtu.be/nSKQR0k6tUY

    Reply
  • September 7, 2019 at 2:07 pm
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    "Coprolite Computer By-Products" lol!

    Reply
  • September 13, 2019 at 1:51 pm
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    What brand are the caps?? are they Japanese or chinese?? cos uno the jap caps are the real deal right?? and not fake or 2nd hand that comes out of china.

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  • October 2, 2019 at 12:59 am
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    When I had an Atari 520, I sent it to a company in New York……where they doubled my RAM by piggybacking additional RAM chips………..I thought I would never, ever see a need for that much RAM.

    Reply

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